I grew up with, for example, in our ngilin, you will not cut trees that are near the watershed even though you really really need trees. Don’t cut it! Even though you need it. Because, well in our spirituality it will say, that will anger the water spirits that are also guarding that water. AND also, if you cut trees in the watershed, where will the water come from? The river will dry up, the spring will dry up. And so, I grew up in that worldview that we are deeply interconnected with creation. So to take that out, that’s so inconceivable. That’s actually, yeah, taking creation out of the equation is difficult for me to understand.

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Theme Music

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Hi everyone! Thanks so much for coming back for episode two of Just a Peaceful Climate, where we are highlighting groups and organizations that integrate efforts for peace, justice, and planet care. Trust me, you’ll be glad you’re back. This time on the podcast we will be hearing from Tala Bautista about an organization she’s worked with, PeaceBuilders Community, Inc. Just a heads up, we were unable to do this interview in person due to COVID-19, so apologies in advance for some internet-related sound glitchiness. Anyway, without further ado, sit back, relax (or, if you’re like me, listen while doing the dishes) and enjoy the interview!

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N: MorningTala, thanks so much for joining me.

T: Thanks for inviting me.

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N: Yeah. Um, so to start off would you mind just introducing yourself a bit for us; tell us a little bit about yourself?

T: Um, yeah, my name’s Tala and I’m an Indigenous person from the Philippines and currently studying here at CJP (Center for Justice and Peacebuilding).

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N: Great! Thank you. Um, So I know that you're involved with PeaceBuilders Community, Inc. Um, Could you tell me a bit about what that organization does? 

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T: It’s basically a… It’s a Mennonite-based organization in the Philippines and its vision is to contribute to the transformation of the Philippines through a non-violent movement of peace and reconciliation.

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N: Great. So what are some of the activities...Or what does the organization do to meet some of those goals?

 
T: Hm...I think that’s one of the values of Peacebuilders Community is not have a set program for the communities that we work with. And I think that's also one way of decolonizing peacebuilding - not having a program and then going to a community to implement it. One of our key values is listening which means we take time to listen to the community about how do they envision peace for themselves? What does it mean for them? And then, what do they have? And with what they have and with what they envision for their community, then what can they do about it? And we journey with them, we listen to them as they craft their own programs. So because of that our programs vary from one community to the next. 
So for example, one community can have a school of living traditions, then another would have a mediation because that’s what they need. Maybe a mediation with a multinational company. A community can start a coffee social enterprise, another one can start, like, a disaster response because maybe that's what also they need. So it really varies. What’s constant is the peace framework. That’s what we start with as a dialogue piece, the peace framework.

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N: So what do you mean by a peace framework?

T: In summary of it is: Harmony with the creator, which is spiritual transformation. And however you know the creator, whatever the name of the creator is to your tribe or to your place, however you understand and you engage with the creator - listen to that. And part of the framework is to have the space for spiritual transformation - to be truly connected with the creator however way you are in right now. 
The next would be harmony with the being and that is psychosocial transformation. And, yeah, it can mean harmony with yourself. It can mean in many other ways. For me it also means being at peace with the identity that the creator has given me - my own personality, my own quirks, my own strengths and weaknesses, and my own identity as an Indigenous person, because that’s one thing that has been wounded a lot. And it’s very easy to just escape and to just shun other identities, and then there’s also this pull to just deny my being Indigenous. And so for myself, part of the harmony with the being is to embrace that identity that God has gave me.
The third one would be harmony with others and the social-political transformation. I am a person, and yeah, we are in relationship with other people with other identities, with other races. AND we also live in a system; we also live in political systems; we live in economic systems; we live in religious systems. And so the harmony with others it means relationship with, for example, with individuals, with people. And those relationships can not just be taken as personal relationships because to be in harmony with others is to have justice - to have just relationships, which unfortunately our systems are not providing or our systems are making unjust, um, no, our systems are unjust. And that also shapes the way we relate with each other. And so even I want to have a good relationship with, for example a neighbor, but our political system is just oppressing that neighbor, then there’s no harmony in that. Even if I have a very good relationship with that neighbor personally. And so part of the peace framework is to work with the system, transform the systems. That is social-political transformation, that we cannot just remove ourselves and think we are living in a vacuum. Having good relationships, I mean like, being friendly with the neighbor is not enough. But working with the systems so that my neighbor can live justly. That is part of it. Am I being clear?

N: yeah, yeah for sure.

T: And the fourth one is harmony with the creation - that’s economic-ecological transformation. Many of the communities I work with, they say “how can we talk about peace if our stomachs are hungry?” And, yeah! Peace is something, we think that, or no not we think, but sometimes it’s thought that peace is abstract, but it's not. Peace is very concrete. Peace can be felt, peace can be tasted, peace can be seen. And so the economic ecological transformation is part of peace. How do we live in harmony with creation? How can I live as a human being without imbalancing the systems that I am in? The land that I am in, the water that I am drinking. I cannot say that I will not use it, because every creation uses some things. But that's the beauty of it, we are interdependent we use and we give. And so how do we live in that interdependent ecology and not just be like a parasit, like a human parasite, who just takes and takes and takes and does not give back to the ecology that is sustaining us?

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N: Hm. So it sounds like those four things you just mentioned: Being in harmony with the creator, our being, others, and creation are kind of the 4 aspects that the organization considers under their peacebuilding framework. Is that fair to say?

T: That is our framework. Everything we do is shaped by that and driven by that. And fueled by that. Because we are faith-based, we are a faith-inspired organization, it is from the bible from the Judeo-Christian tradition, and it is also very Indigenous. Because as an Indigenous person those values are present in our values, our Kalinga core values. Kalinga is the name of my people. We name it paniyaw, ngilin, and ba-in. And basically paniyaw is the Indigenous value in our faith; it’s harmony with the creator, it’s the value that governs our relationship with the spiritual being. The ngilin is the value that governs our relationship with self and with the creation. And ba-in is the value that governs our relationship with other creation. And you cannot take any of that away. Even if you practice 2, but not the one, for example you practice paniyaw and ngilin but you don’t ba-in, it lost everything. It has to be practiced. It has to be taken as a whole. And so, yeah, the peace framework of PCBI is found in the bible and it’s also found in our Indigenous culture. And it's also articulated by many other spiritualities that we’ve met with or that we’ve had dialogue with.

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N: So is the, do you feel like the organization is, maybe not equally, but, influenced by both biblical scripture and iIndigenous traditions from the Philippines?

T: Hm. I think...My trouble with that would be it seems as if there is a separation between the Bible and Indigenous spiritualities. And so I’m trying to, I’m trying to um… Give me a moment to think about what I want to say. I’m just uncomfortable with the seemingly separation of faith cuz the Bible is a story. It’s a story of God - a story of God engaging with the people. In this book it’s Israel is the focus. And God’s story is present everywhere, you know, it’s… God shows the Godself everywhere because that’s who God is. And God shows the divine self in the Indigenous peoples. 
Of course all cultures - even all cultures… I might sound like a heretic, but even the way Christians view God, there is always something flawed. Because we are humans. Everyone has fallen short of the glory of God. We’re humans! We’re flawed. And so in the Indigenous spirituality in its attempt to engage with the all-knowing God, of course it is flawed! And it’s the same with the Bible, the way we engage with the Bible, it is also flawed! BUT even with that flawed engagement, the beauty of the divine self is still present. 
And so to say that the Indigenous spirituality is outside the Bible, it just makes me like, “wait, maybe we can talk about how the way God showed up in the bible is the story of God engaging with the people and see how God has also engaged with the Indigenous peoples.” You know? Am I making sense?

N: Yeah, yeah, I think I really appreciate you pushing back on that question. I think my question definitely points to the context that I come from and being raised in the US in a very particular Christian context. The story that I was told about the Bible was that if you don’t believe in this bible then you believe in something totally different. So I really appreciate you blurring those boundaries and making it more complex than what my question allowed for it to be, so thank you for that.

T: Yeah it's just more of like...How do we listen, truly listen, to how God engaged with the people. And with the whole of creation. And so yeah, as a Judeo-Christian follower, I read the bible, I see it and I totally immerse myself in it. And because I am seeing that god is so merciful and so just, the prince of peace, and I take all of these and look at all of the other communities we’ve worked at and say, “Hey! This is how God is dealing with the people of this context too!” And so it just sort of...not putting God in a box and just saying “hey, this is how God shows the godself in this church, in this religion or in this spirituality.” But yeah it sort of like opens it. And then we can listen and that’s how we dialogue. 
And so yes we are very open with our faith. And we are very um, transparent that we are coming from a Judeo-Christian background and I think that makes it more open for us to truly engage with other spiritualities. Because instead of hiding it, because yeah, sometimes there’s this we need to hide who we are, like we have to be non-religious. But that’s just so weird! Because that’s who you are, you know like, your faith is part of your identity so if you hide that… Part of me - when I said that’s so weird, it’s for me. That feels like a dissonance for me, not to be general, not a judgment, but it feels dissonant for me because that’s where I'm coming from. And so to keep that, How am I being in harmony with my being and how am I being in harmony with them when I'm not being transparent about who I am? And then how can they be transparent about who they are to me? If that makes sense. And so yeah…

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N: Thank you. Um… let’s see. So one of the things that I noticed on the website as I was browsing is that shalom and shalom living seem like really important values to the organization and I'm wondering if you could tell me more about what that means. 

T: So yeah, shalom is like peace. It was summarized in that. When I said harmony with the creator, with the being, with others, and with self. Peace-building or shalom-living, it simply means living out the peace, living out the harmony with the creator with yourself, with others,, and with creation. And so peacebuilding is, yeah we do have all these academic terms to define what peacebuilding is, but a summary is to live out the peace.

Another thing that I saw on the website was the Peace and Reconciliation movement that seems central to some of the work that the organization does. Could you tell me more about that?

T: So basically, the peace and reconciliation movement is the...let’s say it’s the container for the...our peace framework is being held. Or maybe if it’s like a body it’s the skeleton. It helps keep the body up. So, it’s basically communities all over the Philippines, we aim to have one Peace and Reconciliation movement in each of the provinces. And these are the people who invite us, who are believe in the peace framework, who are committed to the peace framework. And they are the ones who are actually practicing, who are doing the shalom living in their provinces. They are the ones who are...i’m - i’m - i keep forgetting… basically they’re the movers. They're the ones who are practicing the peace framework in their own context. So i think right now we have 33 over all the philippines. And those movements are not… because it’s a movement it’s not centralized. So they have their own leadership, they have their own way they envision their own peace. They have their own sets of programs. So most of the times they don’t even use our name as Peacebuilders Community, they have their own. Or most of the time they bring the peace framework to the organizations they already have and it's totally fine. 
For us we don’t really put so much concern if it’s attributed or if our name is being used or not. It's just like what matters is the peace framework. So for example, my family or my aunt really believed in the peace framework - really believed in that - and so she’s using that in her work and that’s very - and we say amen to that! You know? So, yeah if that makes sense.

N: Yeah, so the Peace and Reconciliation movement is just kind of more about living out the peace theology then that you described earlier?

T: I think it's more of like… um… in our worldview of structures because we also need structures. The PAR movement is the structure. But those structures is not… centralized - shaped the same way. So it just means it’s a structure in each province wherein those people come together, the people invite us, yeah, come together to learn, to discuss, to talk, to train about peace and reconciliation and then bring that out wherever they are. So yeah the PAR movement is the structure 

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N: So I think as I told you in some of our previous communication, what I'm really interested in learning more about is how specific organizations like yours combine some of the, um, work connecting peacebuilding, justice, and care for land and planet. And i’m wondering if you could tell me...if we could dig into that a little more now.

T: So again, as i have mentioned a while ago, peace involves 4 quadrants, the four harmonies. And the last one is economic/ecological transformation. And again as an Indigenous person, the core values of paniyaw, ngilin, and ba-in, ngilin is the value that governs our relationship with others and with the creation. So to take the creation out, it was actually a concept that was hard for me to understand when it was not in the equation. So to take that aspect out of the equation is what’s hard for me. And so when i was asked, “oh so you incorporate it?” and my first reaction would be like “hm, well, why not?” yeah so, especially I grew up with, for example, in our ngilin, you will not cut trees that are near the watershed even though you really really need trees. Don’t cut it! Even though you need it. Because, well in our spirituality it will say, that will anger the water spirits that are also guarding that water. AND also, if you cut trees in the watershed, where will the water come from? The river will dry up, the spring will dry up. And so, I grew up in that worldview that we are deeply interconnected with creation. So to take that out, that’s so inconceivable. Thats actually, yeah, taking creation out of the equation is difficult for me to understand. 

N: Yeah, yeah, I think that’s another interesting example of how, like here in the US in my context, again coming from different points. And um...the peacebuilding work that I’ve been exposed to I feel like does not prioritize or doesn’t consider the land and all living beings as a part of peacebuilding all the time. And it’s really exciting for me to hear about different types of peacebuilding work or perspectives on peacebuilding where it makes no sense for the land not to be a part of the work. So I think that’s really cool.

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N: So with the organization then you mentioned again, these 4 different harmonies, and creation being one of them. And so, are there certain, um, hm, I’m trying to think of how to phrase this question because you said earlier that the organization doesn’t focus on specific actions, but I’m wondering if you could give me specific examples of when you’ve seen peacebuilding, justice, and care for the planet intersect in what the organization does.

T: Yeah, I guess when I said we do not have specific actions I guess what i meant is that we do not impose programs in the communities. But we do have very specific actions. We just do not impose them on people. 
So… I think one of the… there are actually many actions, but I think I can focus on the Coffee for Peace because it really addresses the economic ecological transformation and the question about people, like how can we talk about peace if we’re hungry. And so coffee for peace is a social enterprise and it was started because of a conflict in the southern part of the Philippines. There were two neighbors and they were warring over land - a Christian and a Muslim. They were in conflict over the ownership of the land. The CEO of Coffee for Peace now, which is the wife of the CEO of PeaceBuilders Community, noticed that every time they go to a Muslim community they were offered coffee. They go to a christian Community, they were offered coffee. They go to an Indigenous community or the nomad they were offered coffee. And these three are the three major groups that are always in conflict. 
And Joji, that’s her name, said “hey! Coffee is something that is being, um, that is common with these three conflicting groups. Maybe we can make coffee an icon for peace.” So she just started peace houses, small huts, conflicting groups can go there to talk, and there’s only two rules: leave your weapons outside, and then have coffee and talk. And it worked! You know, it worked! And so and then the people in the community were saying [something in a different language] and when Joji asked “what does that mean?”, it’s actually their language for “coffee for peace.” 
So they went home to Dabow, that’s our home office, registered it with SEC and started a small coffee shop. And it was supposed to be just offering coffee, you know like just having a coffee shop for the other NGOs in the area. But then, of course when you have a coffee shop, then you get to ask, where do we source our coffee? And so they go to the farmers, and then when they go to the farmers -  wait there are so many injustices in the coffee industry! Who owns the land? Even if the farmer owns the land, how is the coffee priced? Even if the coffee is sold, where does the majority of the income go? Wait, even if there are coffee trees, there are bombs around, there are guns around! We have to address that! And so it just grew and grew until Coffee for Peace became now a social enterprise on its own that addresses the production, the farmer’s side, the whole supply chain - so we follow the fair trade values - until the consumer side until it’s in the coffee shop! 
And that, because coffee also needs trees, coffee actually, especially the arabica coffee because there are 4 varieties of coffee and Philippines can produce everything, but one of the more expensive coffees is the arabica coffee and it grows in the highlands. So this is how we first started, and our highlands right now, especially in Mindanow, are very much polluted, there are no more trees. And so how can we have a livelihood that will also recover our forest cover? Coffee! Because you have to plant trees to make your coffee quality better! And it’s also better for the health of the coffee. And, um, also coffee is, it can live for long years, so you don’t have to keep on cutting and cutting. Oh! The very interesting thing about coffee, especially arabica, is that it’s a multi crop, and so the more plants that you plant with it then the better it tastes, or the better the aroma, the better quality it is. And so it naturally promotes diversity instead of monocropping, which is really good. And of course the market right now for coffee is also really high. 
And so yeah you can see how it addresses the economic and ecological aspects. And as we go to communities who are inviting us to do coffee training, it’s always guaranteed that we are doing it again with a peace framework. We are not just there for business. And yeah, so there are many, not many, all of our business engagements really follow that peace framework. And sometimes of course our income as a coffee enterprise as a social enterprise sometimes -  not sometimes actually it’s most of the time - it takes a back seat. Because the number one value is “does it promote peace.” 

N: That’s such a cool example of how all of those elements are all so interconnected. I’m a strong believer in the power of drinking coffee together. And yeah, I love that idea of coffee as peacebuilding and coffee as justice. That’s just such a cool concept.

T: Actually coffee, our tagline is that, not tagline, but, I believe and we really believe that coffee’s not our product. Peace is our product. Coffee is just the icon.

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N: So, well, 2 parts: How long have you been involved in this organization? And what have your roles looked like?

 

T: I’ve been involved in the organization since 2011 and um… positionally I’m the chief operating officer of Peacebuilders un???? Um, work-wise, most of my time then were involved in community organizing so I'm the one who would go to the communities to… I was the start of front-liner going to communities and then because of the... I mean to answer to people’s invitations and then organize the Peace and Reconciliation movement there. So basically that’s what I have done for the majority of my years living there. And then as COO I was actually cut short because I came to CJP. At the time I was brought to the main office and started learning how to do a peace setting to support the peace movement in the field. But then, yeah, I came here to study so I was just in that position for 8 months, yeah. Starting to learn how to support the movement in these different ways.

 

N: Have you been able to continue doing some work with them even though you’re currently in the US?

 

T: Yeah. It’s more of like, uh, I'm very much connected with them. Once you're a peacebuilder you're always a part of the tribe, I mean you’re always part of the community, even if you're not connected organizationally, but I still am. The thing is, yeah I do- I am still part of everything like the communications and everything, but I am not actively, I’m not playing an active role at the moment, like in decision making, of course. I’m here. Or in the day to day activities I also do not play with that. I also do not do anymore of that because my mentors, the CEO of PBCI and the CEO of Coffee for Peace, told me, and I just also had a call with them last night, that my main role for now is to focus on my being, harmony with the being. I am here. Focus on learning. Focus on healing myself. So that when i go back i can be a better [inaudible] of that peace with the creator. Thanks for reminding me! They literally just told me that last night. Because it’s difficult, especially like, I have seen earthquakes, I have seen them responding to so many things in the Philippines and I miss that work! And this is the [inaudible] for me to jump into, you know like, I also want to do that! But then they would remind me that like, no, at this point in time you are there in the US, focus on your being. I guess that's my work!

N: So when you go back to the Philippines, is that, first of all, just out of personal curiosity, do you have a timeline of when that will be when you’re planning to go back?

T: Yeah, God willing, because with everything that’s happening, the first plan was that I would stay here for one more year for optional practical training and get the certification for STAR trainer. Yeah just really also learning more about the aspect of peacebuilding, understanding trauma and resilience because that’s what we also need in our communities. Not just with the communities but with myself too and with our team, with our whole team. So yeah as I take my OPT, I also want to be certified as a STAR trainer. Oh, STAR means Strategies for Trauma Awareness and Resilience. So yeah, yeah that’s the plan.

N: So is continuing more hands on work with PBCI something you plan to do when you go back?

T: Yes, but actually when I go back I will be more active with Coffee for Peace. Actually even before I came here, they're the same role, but I think it will be more of, yeah really focusing on Coffee for Peace because I am -  they are also training me on the administrative side of Coffee for Peace before I came here. And so when I go back I think I will be more focused on the social enterprise. But of course, again, it’s not separate, but yeah. Organizationally I'll be more focused on coffee for peace.

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N: Cool! Well i don’t have any other written questions, do you feel like there are other things that are really important for me to know?

 

T: hm...I’m not really sure. If you have any more questions just reach me.

 

N: Okay

 

T: yeah!

 

N: Well thanks again so much for, yeah, taking about an hour here of your morning on your saturday to join me with this! I really appreciate it!

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Wow. I came away from that interview feeling so energized for so many reasons.

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As Tala talked about the socio-political transformation and transforming the systems that we are a part of, I am reminded of some writing by Robert Cox. He is specifically talking about how the state and civil society are nearly impossible to separate. While that’s a bit different than what Tala was saying, I do think that it applies here. She talked about how it’s impossible to take ourselves out of the context and systems we are in. PBCI recognizes that we don’t live in individual vacuums, so they focus on both individual and societal transformation. This also makes it clear that the organization, whether they explicitly state it or not, uses Critical Theory to inform their decisions and actions. James Bohman helps us understand Critical Theory. Critical theory is different from traditional theory because instead of just theorizing how the world is organized, it seeks ways to satisfy human needs and free people from oppressive systems. The goal is to increase freedom. Peacebuilder’s Community does this by working with the individual, the community, and the system, which are all interconnected, to encourage peace and liberation.

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I was also just so full of excitement to see how this one organization, at its very roots, integrates peace, justice, and care for the environment. As Tala mentioned, these things are inseparable from one another. As you heard in the interview, it took me some time to understand what she meant by that. A lot of the peacebuilding theories and work that I have been exposed to, particularly those written by white-bodied folks, do not incorporate the land into the work. And, alternatively, although I am not in the environmental sciences world quite as much, I rarely hear of the sciences incorporating justice and peacebuilding into their work. Fortunately, that distinct separation does not hold true for the entire world, as Tala told us. 

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I think this speaks to how overwhelmed I feel sometimes when I think of how much work we still need to do to change things. It feels exhausting to think of peace, justice, and planet care as all separate entities. So it was comforting to hear that not everywhere in the world separates those things. It is also comforting to be reminded that we do not necessarily need to seek for new answers, reach for new technology, come up with a shiny new idea, or reinvent the wheel to come up with ways to respond. Mary Anderson notes the importance of building upon the local capacities for peace and designing programs that reinforce these capacities. Tala gave us a great example of how her organization has done this broadly with all their work being specific to the local context, and more specifically with their Coffee for Peace initiative. 

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After we stopped recording, Tala and I chatted for a bit longer. In that conversation, she said three words that really stood out to me: Land is life. This seems so obvious - we depend on land for all of our being. Yet why does this seem so hard to grasp sometimes? This recognition - land is life - makes it seem all the more clear that land must be centered in discourse and action related to peacebuilding and justice.

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So, in the days ahead, let's do our part to live in harmony with the creator, with our beings, with others, and with creation.

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Thank you for joining for the second episode of Just a Peaceful Climate. My name is Nicole and I’m the host and editor of this podcast. All the music you hear in the episode is composed by Luke Mullet, who also generously let me use his sound equipment. Big shout out to Tala for joining me this week! And thanks to Erin Campbell who provided some helpful suggestions for this episode! Also, a big thanks to the birds who are singing lovely songs these days. Stick around next time to hear from Jonathan, a farmer with Blacks Run Forest Farm.